Robert & Elizabeth Passenger List 1698 Frongoch-Wales-L mailing List - 14 Oct 2002 Dropbox\Genealogy\Documents\Doc0301-Robert & Elizabeth Passenger List-1698-A.txt ********************************************************************************* From: "Beth McMakin" Subject: [FRONGOCH] Robert & Elizabeth Passenger List Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:21:56 -0600 Hello All, I believe the passenger list for the ship "Robert and Elizabeth", which so many of Evan ab Evan's descendents took to Pennsylvania in 1698, no longer exists. So I've been trying to re-create it. My thought is to run it by all of you on the list to see if you have any corrections or additions, and then to post it on The Ships List for further input. Look it over and let me know what you think. It's actually a separate file, and in case it translates here in a big jumble, just email me & I'll send it separately. So many of these people and families intermarried in Pennsylvania and it can get quite confusing - a narrow gene pool, I guess. Thanks for your input. Beth McMakin mcmrud@vail.net "ROBERT AND ELIZABETH" PASSENGER LIST 1698 Thomas ab Evan, son of Evan ab Evan and his first cousin, William ap John, left Bala, Merioneth, Wales, in late 1697, preceding the larger group of emigrants to Philadelphia in order to buy a tract of land from William Penn for a new (second) Welsh settlement in Pennsylvania. The rest of the Welsh Company immigrants sailed from Liverpool on 18 April 1698 on the ship Robert & Elizabeth, Robert Haydock of Liverpool, owner, Ralph Williams, master. It stopped at Dublin, Ireland, departing there 1 May 1698, reaching Philadelphia eleven weeks later on 17 (Smith's History of Pennsylvania say the 7th) July 1698. Thomas ab Evan's wife traveled with "at least 8 children", along with his sister, Sarah, and three brothers Cadwalader, Owen, and Robert ap Evan and their families, which made a total of 31 from Evan ab Evan's family. During the voyage, 45 of the passengers, and 3 of the crew, died of a form of dysentery (the bloody flux). The Robert and Elizabeth was to have transported 145 people. Howard M. Jenkins in Historical Collections Relating to Gwynedd believes that some of the total compliment of passengers may have been servants, hence not noted anywhere. [10/14/02: It appears that the passenger list for the voyage no longer exists, and following is a beginning attempt to recreate it. Please let me know corrections or additions: Beth McMakin: mcmrud@vail.net] Ann __ (wife of Thomas ab Evan, son of Evan ab Evan, who emigrated in 1697) Their children: Evan Evans Robert Evans Hugh Evans Owen Evans Lowry Evans Sarah Evans Ellin Evans At least 1 more child Robert ab Evan (son of Evan ab Evan) Ellin v Griffith (wife of Robert ab Evan) Their children: Evan Evans Hugh Evans Lowry Evans Ann Evans Mary Evans Sarah Evans Jane Evans Owen ab Evan (son of Evan ab Evan) Elizabeth __ (wife of Owen ab Evan) Their children: Thomas Evans (6 children aboard, 2 born in PA later) Evan Evans Robert Evans John Evans Cadwallader Evans Elizabeth Evans Mary Evans Samuel Evans Cadwallader ab Evan (son of Evan ab Evan) Ellin Morris (wife of Cadwallader ab Evan) Their children: John Evans Sarah Evans 2 children who died at sea Sarah v Evan (daughter of Evan ab Evan) Robert Pugh (husband of Sarah v Evan) Their daughter: Mary Pugh Jane v Hugh ap Cadwallader (wife of William ap John who emigrated in 1697) Their children: Ellin Williams Margaret Williams Catherine Williams John Williams Gwen Williams Gainor Williams Griffith ab Evan (brother of Evan ab Evan) His children: Edward Griffith Robert Griffith David Griffith Hugh Griffith Catherine Griffith (maybe Catherine Griffith Morris) ? Her son: Cadwallader Mary __ (wife of Hugh Griffith, above) Their children: Evan Griffith Griffith Griffith (later called Griffith Hugh) John Williams (from Montgomery, Wales) (married Catherine v Griffith in 1713) Rowland Ellis (from Dolgelley, Wales) and possibly a wife & children Edward ap Foulke (from Coed-y-foel) Eleanor v Hugh (wife of Edward ap Foulke) Their children: Grace Foulke Thomas Foulke Gwen Foulke Hugh Foulke Jane Foulke Catherine Foulke Margaret Foulke Evan Foulke Cadwallader Foulke David ab Evan Margaret v John (wife of David ab Evan) died at sea Their children: Gwen Evans Margaret Evans Gainor Evans Hugh Roberts (Quaker preacher & probable organizer of the voyage) (He 1st went to PA in 1883 onboard the "Morning Star" with his wife, Jane v Owen, 6 children, and sister, Gainor Roberts, who married John ap Robert, also onboard) John ap Humphrey (named on land conveyance deed from William John & Thomas Evan dated 5 June 1699) Gwen v John (wife of John Humphrey) Their children: David Jones (or 1 son & 3 daughters) Jane Jones Cadwallader Jones Elizabeth Jones John ap Hugh (named on land conveyance deed from William John & Thomas Evan dated 5 June 1699) __ (wife of John ap Hugh) Their children: Ellis ap Hugh Gainor ap Hugh Robert ap John (named in William Penn's Patent to William ap John and Thomas ab Evan on 10 March 1698, recorded in 1703. He is named on a land conveyance deed from William John and Thomas Evan dated 5 June 1699. ? Evan ap Robert & family ? Ellis ap David & family Edward ap Hugh (named in William Penn's Patent to William ap John and Thomas ab Evan on 10 March 1998, recorded in 1703) Evan ap Hugh (named on land conveyance deed from William John & Thomas Evan dated 5 June 1699, brother to Edward ap Hugh, above) Source: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/FRONGOCH-WALES/2002-10/1034619716 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Beth McMakin" Subject: [FRONGOCH] Robert & Elizabeth Passenger List Update Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:40:07 -0600 Emily: I added Ellin Pugh & the questioned addition of Sarah Pugh (doesn't seem likely), the children of Robert Pugh and Sarah Evans. I also added Robert Pugh's siblings; Griffith, David and the possibility of Ellin (Edward and Evan were already on the list). I'm guessing that John ap Hugh & family are not related to Robert & his siblings though it sure would make it tidy if he were! Lloyd: Thanks for pointing out the typo! I'm figuring 91 plus some "& family". I'll wait a little longer for any other input & then see what The Ships List might be able to add. I know at one time I saw a query by an "unrelated" person, so I'm hopeful. Thanks. "ROBERT AND ELIZABETH" PASSENGER LIST 1698 Thomas ab Evan, son of Evan ab Evan and his first cousin, William ap John, left Bala, Merioneth, Wales, in late 1697, preceding the larger group of emigrants to Philadelphia in order to buy a tract of land from William Penn for a new (second) Welsh settlement in Pennsylvania. The rest of the Welsh Company immigrants sailed from Liverpool on 18 April 1698 on the ship Robert & Elizabeth, Robert Haydock of Liverpool, owner, Ralph Williams, master. It stopped at Dublin, Ireland, departing there 1 May 1698, reaching Philadelphia eleven weeks later on 17 (Smith's History of Pennsylvania say the 7th) July 1698. Thomas ab Evan's wife traveled with "at least 8 children", along with his sister, Sarah, and three brothers Cadwalader, Owen, and Robert ap Evan and their families, which made a total of 31 from Evan ab Evan's family. During the voyage, 45 of the passengers, and 3 of the crew, died of a form of dysentery (the bloody flux). The Robert and Elizabeth was to have transported 145 people. Howard M. Jenkins in Historical Collections Relating to Gwynedd believes that some of the total compliment of passengers may have been servants, hence not noted anywhere. [10/14/02: It appears that the passenger list for the voyage no longer exists, and following is a beginning attempt to recreate it. Please let me know corrections or additions: Beth McMakin: mcmrud@vail.net] Ann __ (wife of Thomas ab Evan, son of Evan ab Evan, who emigrated in 1697) Their children: Evan Evans Robert Evans Hugh Evans Owen Evans Lowry Evans Sarah Evans Ellin Evans At least 1 more child Robert ab Evan (son of Evan ab Evan) Ellin v Griffith (wife of Robert ab Evan) Their children: Evan Evans Hugh Evans Lowry Evans Ann Evans Mary Evans Sarah Evans Jane Evans Owen ab Evan (son of Evan ab Evan) Elizabeth __ (wife of Owen ab Evan) Their children: Thomas Evans (6 children aboard, 2 born in PA later) Evan Evans Robert Evans John Evans Cadwallader Evans Elizabeth Evans Mary Evans Samuel Evans Cadwallader ab Evan (son of Evan ab Evan) Ellin Morris (wife of Cadwallader ab Evan) Their children: John Evans Sarah Evans 2 children who died at sea Sarah v Evan (daughter of Evan ab Evan) Robert Pugh (husband of Sarah v Evan) Their children: Mary Pugh (possibly a 3rd, Sarah, as well, but LDS shows b. 1707) Ellin Pugh Edward ap Hugh/Pugh (named in William Penn's Patent to William ap John and Thomas ab Evan on 10 March 1998, recorded in 1703, brother to Robert Pugh, above) Evan ap Hugh/Pugh (named on land conveyance deed from William John & Thomas Evan dated 5 June 1699, brother to Robert and Edward) Griffith ap Hugh/Pugh (brother to Robert, Edward & Evan) David ap Hugh/Pugh (brother to Robert, Edward, Evan & Griffith) ? Ellin v. Hugh/Pugh (sister of the 5 Hugh/Pugh brothers above. Born in 1675, no further info.) Jane v Hugh ap Cadwallader (wife of William ap John who emigrated in 1697) Their children: Ellin Williams Margaret Williams Catherine Williams John Williams Gwen Williams Gainor Williams Griffith ab Evan (brother of Evan ab Evan) His children: Edward Griffith Robert Griffith David Griffith Hugh Griffith Catherine Griffith (maybe Catherine Griffith Morris) ? Her son: Cadwallader Mary __ (wife of Hugh Griffith, above) Their children: Evan Griffith Griffith Griffith (later called Griffith Hugh) John Williams (from Montgomery, Wales) (married Catherine v Griffith in 1713) ? Rowland Ellis (from Dolgelley, Wales) and possibly a wife & children Edward ap Foulke (from Coed-y-foel, Wales) Eleanor v Hugh (wife of Edward ap Foulke) Their children: Grace Foulke Thomas Foulke Gwen Foulke Hugh Foulke Jane Foulke Catherine Foulke Margaret Foulke Evan Foulke Cadwallader Foulke David ab Evan Margaret v John (wife of David ab Evan) died at sea Their children: Gwen Evans Margaret Evans Gainor Evans Hugh Roberts (Quaker preacher & probable organizer of the voyage) (He 1st went to PA in 1883 onboard the "Morning Star" with his wife, Jane v Owen, 6 children, and sister, Gainor Roberts, who married John ap Robert, also onboard) John ap Humphrey (named on land conveyance deed from William John & Thomas Evan dated 5 June 1699) Gwen v John (wife of John Humphrey) Their children: David Jones (or 1 son & 3 daughters) Jane Jones Cadwallader Jones Elizabeth Jones Robert ap John (named in William Penn's Patent to William ap John and Thomas ab Evan on 10 March 1698, recorded in 1703. He is named on a land conveyance deed from William John and Thomas Evan dated 5 June 1699. ? Evan ap Robert & family ? Ellis ap David & family John ap Hugh (named on land conveyance deed from William John & Thomas Evan dated 5 June 1699. It is believed he was not brother to the other Hugh/Pugh siblings) __ (wife of John ap Hugh) Their children: Ellis ap Hugh Gainor v Hugh Source: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/FRONGOCH-WALES/2002-10/1034707207 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth McMakin" Subject: [FRONGOCH] Re: Robert & Elizabeth Passenger List Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:00:48 -0600 References: <20021017135022.8633.qmail@web80004.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Gary, Thanks so much for the response. Here's my saga of Cadwallader ap Robert, and you can let me know if it ultimately rings true to you. At your suggestion, I went to Jenkins' "Gwynedd" and find helpful info on the ship's passengers on pgs 50-51, and Cadwallader ap Robert is not mentioned. However, I find it interesting that his mother is Jane v John, sister of William ap John who went over in 1697 in preparation for the rest of the group. In addition to William's wife & children, his other sister Margaret (wife of David ab Evan) and brother Robert were on board the R&E. William's uncle (brother to his mother, Jane), Griffith ap John, appears to have emigrated in 1690, which makes 4 "ap John" siblings ultimately emigrating that I know of. Jane v John & her husband, Robert ap Cadwallader, both of whom died in Pennsylvania, obviously emigrated at some point, and it appears that their son, Cadwallader ap Robert, as well as most of his siblings, did as well. If the whole family were on the R&E, I don't know how Jenkins could miss a family group that large. But that's page 50. THEN, looking on p. 186 in Jenkins (chapter on Roberts Family Genealogy), he relates that Cadwallader ap Robert, and probably his brother Morris, came over with Edward Foulke and Cadwallader Evans, which would mean the R&E in 1698, and their father, Robert ap Cadwallader, his wife and remaining children (John, Rowland, Elizabeth & Nicholas) came over sometime after 1698, but Jenkins seems uncertain of details. My thoughts at the moment, always subject to change, are that Cadwallader ap Robert and Morris ap Robert were indeed on the R&E, probably under the watchful eye of their aunt, Margaret v John, her husband David ab Evan, and numerous more distant relatives, and the remainder of their immediate family was on a later ship (before 1704). I think these 2 lone brothers were part of the few Jenkins referred to "As to the other families I do not attempt anything." on p. 50, so I'm putting them on the passenger list. The nutshell is in reading p. 50 and 186. What do you think? Beth. ----- Original Message ----- From: GARY ROBERTS To: Beth McMakin Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [FRONGOCH] Robert & Elizabeth Passenger List Beth, This is great work. I was wondering about Cadwallader ap Robert that is my line. I have read references to the fact that they were also on the "Robert and Elizabeth" for the 1698 sailing. I believe Jenkins books makes this reference. I did not see his/family name on your list and I was wondering if you could check and see if the were, in fact, on the ship. I appreciate your work and checking into this. Gary in Texas http://garys-genealogy.com Source: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/FRONGOCH-WALES/2002-10/1034964048 == END OF THREAD == ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------